Talk:List of island countries

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. And while this isn't really the forum to use to mediate content disputes, since there isn't really a consensus to move here, it would seem natural to restore the contents to countries that are on islands, with perhaps a separate section discussing borders or the lack of them. Dekimasuよ! 00:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

List of island countries → a different title — As this article is so different from Island country, which lists such states as the United Kingdom and Ireland as being island countries, a name change must be in order. Australia is also a continent, and is not usually considered an island. I would suggest list of countries without land boundaries, although other names may well be better. YeshuaDavid (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• I agree there is a problem here. This is currently a list of borderless countries, not of island countries. This page used to contain countries like the UK and Indonesia, but at some point they were removed. I see two options: we could alter the page to include all countries on islands, or we can rename it list of borderless countries. - SimonP (talk) 17:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

• Both options are certainly valid. Given that we have "list of countries that border only one other country" it would make sense to have "list of borderless countries". As island countries needs an overhall anyway, I would suggest renaming this to "list of borderless countries" and severing the connection with island countries, for now. YeshuaDavid (talk) 18:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

  That sounds like a good approach. If we want a list of countries on islands, we can always add one to island countries. - SimonP (talk) 20:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose - I agree that there is a problem here, but rather than it being a problem of a misnamed page, it is a problem of 'Definition Creep'. The page made perfect sense vis-a-vis the title when it was originally started (see HERE. The original purpose (i.e. definition) for the 'List of Island Countries' page was;

This is a list of countries which are made up of just islands. This means that they are either a single island or a group of islands.

That's a BIG difference from what the page is now. Now, the page's lede has a completely 'fabricated' (i.e. totally made up) description of what an 'Island Country' is. It is more than clear that the current definition existing on the page is artfully fabricated so that whomever, along the way, could add their own country to this list. But, the correct thing to do is to regress back to the original Stated Intent of the page, and toss out everything that has been 'creeped' into it. Since the lede (definition of what an Island Country is) came straight out of someone's imagination, rather than a published Reliable Source, I am going to help this project by tagging everything on the page that carries the malodorous stink of having been created solely in the mind and imagination of some past Wikipedia Editor. Joe Hepperle (talk) 10:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't see your reasoning, Joe Hepperle. An island country must be an island and must be a country. Island's are waterlocked, and obviously don't border anything. QED. The lede seems to be perfectly neutral to me, and we don't need to reference the obvious. I certainly don't seee the need to regress the page. YeshuaDavid (talk) 23:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

• Comment List of countries without borders (the opposite of landlocked countries?) ? 70.29.208.129 (talk) 04:21, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose. I normally argue that the title should be made to fit the article as it is currently written, not the other way around. However, in this case, an article called "List of island countries" is needed at Wikipedia. Evasive euphemisms like "list of countries without borders" or "list of borderless countries" are lame and, even as separate articles, would be content forks. (Plus, wasn't the Mongol Empire a "country without borders" as were many premodern states?). As User:FingersOnRoids[1] and User:Joe Hepperle argue, stop the mission creep. — AjaxSmack 19:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:

There are two list articles that may be of relevance to this discussion: List of island countries by area and List of islands that form the majority of landmass of countries. --Polaron | Talk 20:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

They both seem to follow the "country on an island" definition. - SimonP (talk) 20:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.