Wikipedia talk:Etiquette
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- Project page renamed from Wikipedia:Wikiquette -St|eve 23:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Principles: Register an account... but if you don't, don't make a signature that looks as if you had
I've added that to this page for good reason. You'd be amazed that it needs writing, and it is specifically based on the actions of a single, and AFAICS unique user. There is an RFC which is actually about other aspects of his behaviour. Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/86.10.231.219 - he represents himself as Talk The Invisible Anon. I started the RFC, but several users including admins have made forceful advice that his signature habit is an unhelpful one. Accordingly, I commend this specific mention in Etiquette, lest someone else think it is a precedent and good idea. Midgley 17:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that it shouldn't need to be said, but that such a thing shouldn't be done and if someone is doing it then it must be said. Signing one's name like that is misrepresentation, since whether someone is an IP address–user or not has important implications both technically and for the social structure of Wikipedia. — Saxifrage ✎ 20:40, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
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- Eh? If some troll abuses it once, fine, ban the troll and that's the end of it. In the mean time, anonymous editing on wikipeda is one of the foundation principles, and it's one of out key features. Don't let a couple of trolls ruin things for the entire freaking rest of the planet!
- Hmmm, that and you can't expect anons to know wikipedia etiquette. They typically read it later, after we've given them a warm welcome. :-)
- Finally, many anons are great people who have much to contribute, so be nice to them!
- Kim Bruning 21:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC) (former anon editor who joined after people were nice to me :-) )
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- I strongly disagree (but I'm admittedly biased). A signature is intended to uniquely identify a user, not as a "badge of status" or a "technical measure". Many users have signatures that are not equivalent to their account name; changes have been forced only where disruption and impersonation were involved. As far as I can tell, "The Invisible Anon" linked his signature to his correct user/talk page (which your example above does *not* correctly indicate). Finally, even if you think there is a real justification for this guideline, it should be included at WP:SIG, not here. – 74 00:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
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- I'm surprised this went unchallenged for so long. It's totally wrong. First of all, I have no reason to believe it's an "etiquette" issue. Second, if it's wrong for anons, it's wrong for registered users too. I've seen plenty of sigs that use names (or symbols, etc.) different from what the username is. There's absolutely no reason to act prejudicially toward anons on this one, and offhand I don't see a reason to blanket disallow it for registered users either.--Father Goose (talk) 04:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
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[edit] Means of addressing violations of WP:EQ
WP:EQ states that a user should (1) keep biases in check and (2) act to improve wikipedia articles.
If these two guidelines are violated, what is the recourse? For instance, if an editor goes systematically through articles putting fact tags on pro-homosexual statements, or deletes them, but never contributes to articles, and appears to never make good-faith attempts to find sources to support and improve articles, that author is clearly failing to keep biases in check, and is motivated more by an agenda than an interest to improve articles. Some may argue that this strategy, in the end, improves articles. Maybe that's true, but it doesn't deny the fact that the WP:EQ principles are being violated.
In these cases, what is the proper recourse? Should individual edits, which are in themselves reasonable but on the whole clearly violations, be reverted? That seems likely to cause an edit war. Otherwise, what is the procedure? --Thesoxlost (talk) 20:44, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Unhelpful edits by 71.155.232.61
On 1 January 2009 a string of 8 edits were made by an anonymous editor using IP address 71.155.232.61. The worst of these edits were false ("The system is based on the presumption that a popular position is a correct position") and the least bad were simply not on the topic of etiquette ("Write succinctly. Omit needless words.") Some of these edits have already been reverted, the rest I am reverting. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Unhelpful merger proposals
It is a nuisance that Wikipedia readers propose mergers of articles or lemmata, who definitively do not have the lingual capability of a native speaker in the repective language nor of any expertise in the topic. Who on Earth has set the idea that an encyclopedic database will grow on mergers? Could all those who like to find options for mergers think about the possibility that there are other views but one of two? Anyone who proposes mergers should be willing to contribute to additional stuff, but not just to save server capacity. Any objections that I might understand?Wireless friend (talk) 15:49, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Proposal for a point of etiquette: "Avoid indirect criticism"
I propose adding a point of etiquette to this guideline as a subsection of "Wikipedia etiquette", probably at the bottom of that section. The text would look something like this:
Avoid indirect criticism
Avoid use of unexplained scare quotes and other means of implying criticism or making indirect criticism when you are writing in edit comments and talk pages. Out of respect for other editors, criticism of another's edit, of phrasing and choice of terminology, or any criticism of or critical response to talk page commentary and participation ought to be made clearly, directly, and explicitly in a manner that may be easily understood and replied to.
Hence insinuation, double entendre, and excessive or unwarranted subtlety of writing should be avoided when expressing criticism - particularly negative criticism. This point of etiquette also helps the editor receiving criticism to correctly understand you and respond to your concerns and may particularly aid editors for whom English is a second language or who experience difficulty understanding written English.
When this style of communication is necessary in the interest of being concise or illustrative it is best to explain the intended meaning of your use of scare quotes or other indirection immediately afterward.
Of course criticism communicated in any manner and concerning any subject must be civil, should assume good faith as described in the relevant guideline, should not constitute biting of newcomers, and should comply with other Wikipedia policies and guidelines. If directed generally towards an editor's behavior or other aspects of talk page commentary, criticism must not constitute a personal attack as described in the WP:NPA policy. See also the essay "Avoid personal remarks" for a viewpoint on the latter form of criticism.
I don't think this point of etiquette is formally stated elsewhere on WP but a review of project namespace and article talk mention of the term "scare quotes" appears to indicate that the above notion already has consensus behind it. Also IMO this principle is genuinely good etiquette advice and very much in the spirit of the Wikipedia community's ethos. But I wanted to propose this here before attempting to add it to the article, in case my impression of existing consensus is wrong or I'm wording it poorly or missing a significant aspect of it - so please let fly with comments and (explicit) criticisms!
To be clear, I specifically want to add this to the etiquette guideline because I really think it should merely be etiquette advice like the other things mentioned in this page: my intention is not to formally prohibit or proscribe this form of communication, rather to indicate that communicating in this way is not entirely polite or considerate and hence ought to be avoided in favor of explicit criticism or ought to be accompanied by explicit criticism. (I would also hope that when editors genuinely trying to follow WP:ETIQ stop to consider how to rephrase their indirect criticism into explicit criticism they might decide to just not be critical at all and achieve goals in other ways, in situations where that's appropriate - but I think that kind of behavior must simply be encouraged because it can't be enforced in any practical way.) --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 09:41, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Having heard no opposition here for a few days I'm going to be bold and add the section, but of course feel free to make rewrites or make any other changes to improve it. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 05:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Proposal to remove off-topic material
It is a fairly common mistake among people new to editing Wikipedia to use talk pages for general requests for information on the subject of an article or project page, rather than for discussing proposed changes to the article or project page. In the case of the Etiquette page at least the following sections are general requests for information (not always even on the subject of Etiquette):
- Is it a policy violation to make accusations of sockpuppetry on article talk pages?
- Getting my wikiquette questions answered
- Question about red links
- Question
- Unhelpful merger proposals
Also it is not entirely clear to me that the following sections are proposing edits to the project page:
- Why does this policy protect the extreme right? (And particularly smart trolls)
- I think.
Furthermore, all but one of these sections has been dormant for over a year, most for several years. My own preference in such a case would be to delete the sections, as being out of place and unneeded, but I know that there are many Wikipedia editors who think that past discussions should not be completely deleted, no matter how inappropriate they may be, so I would settle for archiving them. Any opinions? JamesBWatson (talk) 12:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
- I generally feel it's only necessary to delete posts that have no plausible connection to the subject (i.e., the guideline and/or the general subject of etiquette). Tell you what: I'll just archive everything from before 2009, except for the "Register an account" thread, since it is active.--Father Goose (talk) 19:51, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Done. Howzat?--Father Goose (talk) 19:56, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
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- OK. Personally I feel that leaving in posts that shouldn't really be there sets a wrong example to people new to Wikipedia, and my own preference would, as I said above, be to delete them. However, archiving them deals with that problem. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:09, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
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- I agree that if they're totally off-topic, they can be nuked. But if there's any indication whatsoever that the poster is making a comment in response to something on the article page or project page, it's best to leave it in place. IMO.--Father Goose (talk) 08:40, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
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